IN THEIR OWN WORDS

I spend my life listening to what people say. While I have to make judgements all the time about whether I am being told the truth or not, I tend mostly to take what people tell me seriously. Especially if they are telling me that they want to do harm to themselves and/or others.

Here is what Abu Bakar Bashir, the alleged spiritual leader of Jemaah Islamiyah in Indonesia has to say about Islam and the West in an interview in his jail cell in Jakarta: (hat tip: Dave King)

Scott Atran: What are the conditions for Islam to be strong?
Abu Bakar Bashir: The infidel country must be visited and spied upon. If we don't come to them, they will persecute Islam. They will prevent non-Muslims converting.
SA: What can the West, especially the US, do to make the world more peaceful?
ABB: They have to stop fighting Islam. That's impossible because it is sunnatullah [destiny, a law of nature], as Allah has said in the Koran. If they want to have peace, they have to accept to be governed by Islam.
SA: What if they persist?
ABB: We'll keep fighting them and they'll lose. The batil [falsehood] will lose sooner or later. I sent a letter to Bush. I said that you'll lose and there is no point for you [to fight us]. This [concept] is found in the Koran.
[....]
SA: So this fight will never end?
ABB: Never. This fight is compulsory. Muslims who don't hate America sin. What I mean by America is George Bush's regime. There is no iman [belief] if one doesn't hate America.
SA: How can the American regime and its policies change?
ABB: We'll see. As long as there is no intention to fight us and Islam continues to grow there can be peace. This is the doctrine of Islam. Islam can't be ruled by others. Allah's law must stand above human law. There is no [example] of Islam and infidels, the right and the wrong, living together in peace.

This man just had his sentence reduced for conspiracy in the Bali bombings and will soon walk free.

There is no reason to doubt that he means what he says.